Are you happy with the current motorcycle training schemes

[UK Bike Forum Member]

16 year olds not 17

What never ceases to amaze me when doing cbt's is the amount of parents who bring there precious 16/17 year olds up to the training area,and have never given a thought about going thru the highway code with them first . If it was a game of football or rugby rules would be gone thru before hand   

[UK Bike Forum Member]

My parents did advise me to look through high way code

[UK Bike Forum Member]

My apologies, I mean no offence, I am wrong to generalise all young riders.
I do not blame it all on the young riders it's all the other muppets on the roads aswell! you add this to lack of experience and little knowledge and it's a scary combination for any age .... but more so the young!
again apologies

[UK Bike Forum Member]

The issue isnt just age related, it experience related. I've worked with 24yr olds that don't drive and I know due to their attitude they'd be lethal on the roads with only 2hrs on road training. Maybe they need to have a 1 day CBT if you've been driving for over 2yrs and 2 day one for none cage drivers.

[UK Bike Forum Member]

I’m gonna chuck my two pence in too lol!!

I passed my DAS last Friday (with a clean sheet ahem lol) yay for me.

My CBT, which I sat in April I think, pretty much consisted of me regularly stalling the 125, putting my feet down and stalling some more. I’d never sat on a motor bike until this day. However most of my time was spent trying to get used to the clutch, brakes and throttle. After a few laps round the car park, some safety advice and showing us some basic bike checks we were ready to hit the road. But then we were offered to do the on road training on a 500 so we could skip this intro on the mod 1. Bargain! Few laps round the car park again and off we go. I was very jumpy on the clutch and throttle and then had to contend with indicating, other vehicles, voices in my head and turning the indicator off. All of which I thought I was pretty shi**y at! Result, passed the CBT!

The CBT is exactly what it says on the tin – basic. This is a bike. This is how it works. This is how you check over your shoulder and in your mirrors. Nothing wrong with that, it’s basic training! Now I can get on a 125 and do 70ish on a duel carriage way. Now, regardless of age, if the person who has just completed this very basic training does not have a driving license or has never ridden a push bike or paid any attention to our over crowded, poorly constructed, confusing road network then this individual now becomes a threat to everyone else, not to mention themselves.  As previously pointed out, so many people attend with no knowledge of the highway code so they have to contend with trying to understand how the road system works along with getting to grips with handling the bike and maybe this raises a few concerns over the CBT. Maybe the CBT should be split and individuals tested dependant on experience? Driver? Theory test before hand? Been riding off road for years? So many possible suggestions, maybe a little difficult to implement?

Theory test – possibly a little on the easy side? Could be a lot more questions?

Mod 1 – this part I found the most invaluable. Like I said, not being used to clutch, throttle etc and not knowing how to handle a bike at slower speeds, this really does give you a great starting point from which to develop. It does help having a good instructor too!  This part of the test really does improve your (well for me anyway) understanding of how the bikes work. The ever so controversial avoidance test, I feel is a must and can only be a good thing. I did think 32mph was very fast as I was not used to it lol!! However, I don’t feel this is a difficult manoeuvre and I don’t feel as though any of it was unnecessary. After all, these tests are done to make us safer riders. I suppose the only disadvantage is the very limited amount of training grounds available.

Mod 2 – with the slow riding and manoeuvres out the way it’s less weighing on your mind and gives you the ability to concentrate on what’s going on around you and your road positioning and general riding. Even if you have been riding on a 125 for some time I would strongly recommend some training beforehand. Everyone picks up bad habits and if you’ve only done your CBT, chances are you don’t check around you enough and your general understanding of how to position yourself in the road might not be good enough to get you through the test.

These tests along with the driving test I feel give you a basic understanding and a basic knowledge of how to use the roads. It’s always down to the individual on how well you progress and how you improve upon your riding or driving.

Things change all the time, tests evolve. If these changes prevent just one accident then they are worth it. Embrace it 

I believe the only way to improve road saftey and ever increasing crappy traffic is to re test. And that’s re test everyone, regularly. Bikes, cars, lorries, busses everyone. I have spoken to people who have actually said about their car test “if I were to do the test now I’d fail”!! And these people are driving on the roads with you!! You have to have your photo changed on your driving licence and passport every 10 years because you change, why shouldn’t you have to re test every 10 years because you change, roads change, the highway code changes! My mother will do as much as she can not to drive on the motorway because she is not confident and doesn’t like it. I have friends who I will not get in a car with because they are dreadful drivers and scare me! That asshole driving down the road with an ambulance/ police car/ fire engine behind them for miles because they “didn’t see it”!! what the hell are they doing or not doing, to not notice the big bright flashing lights!! People pass and become complacent and lazy. I’m sure we are all guilty of it from time to time, I know I am. But I would be happy to re take my test every 10 years! It’s the only way to improve things.

I think no matter how these tests are carried out, weather they are car, bike, lorry or whatever there will always be something wrong with them – people using machines!!

Wow that turned into a bit of a rant sorry lol

Just to get back to point lol, I think all four tests do exactly what they say on the tin. The CBT is exactly that, basic, but maybe should be more involved. The DAS should not go backwards and have parts removed from it. It doesn’t necessarily need the age restriction increased but possibly compulsory training attached to it to give the learner far more understanding of the handling of the bike and road conditions. I was possibly very lucky with all my training and tests in that they were dryish days, but now I don’t know how to react with a very wet day on my daily commute to Bristol. Again that’s just going to have to come down to experience and only doing what I feel comfortable with, but a little training in these conditions would be very beneficial.

Sh*t I should do some work!

[UK Bike Forum Member]

see this for the french take on the directive
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

[UK Bike Forum Member]

can't believe i'm goona say it - impressed by the french! noooooo i said it!!!!

[UK Bike Forum Member]

Hi,

I believe the current system is pointless, and useless to say the least.

Think about it ... I have done my CBT and now ride a Honda NSR 125 on the public roads. I can do this for 2 years before having to take another CBT. I do everything a fully licensed motorcyclist does apart from a few things I will list below.

I Cannot:

1. Carry a Pillion
2. Ride on the Motorway
3. Bin my L plates
4. Ride bigger bikes

Why not just give me a full license after my CBT? Why do I have to take 2 practical tests and a theory test so that I may:

1. Carry a Pillion
2. Ride on the Motorway
3. Bin my L plates
4. Ride bigger bikes

If you take a minute to think about this, you will realise that all the tests DO NOT include training on ANY of these points, other than some experience on a larger bike maybe?!

So why is it that we have to take all these tests, to have something added to our license, that we haven't even trained for, and haven't even been tested on?!

Okay apart from riding a bigger CC bike, but come on!

So I have come to the conclusion that all these tests are a waste of time for all of us and purely designed to make money off of us.

Am I missing something obvious here? 

[UK Bike Forum Member]

The main thing you are missing is that CBasicT is just that a BASIC skill level to allow you to practice on the roads by yourself ( Scary really)
The down side is that you dont know if you are doing the right thing to keep you alive or if the actions of the other road users that you interact with are such that its them that are keeping you safe ( which is why L plates are needed),
After the CBT day is completed you would have been advise that extra training should be taken ( not everything can be taught in the limited timeon the road), just as when you pass a practical test the DSA Examiner would tell you again to keep skill levels up and improve them some form of advanced training should be undertaken,
The practical tests show that you have an understanding of the highway code , are able to control your machine in a safe maner , and are  able to ride on the roads without  causing you or anybody else to come into conflict on the road ,also you could always take motorway lessons and have some help with pillions ( and by 2013 automatic upgrade from 125cc to a larger machine after a 2 year period will no longer be in place)
although Cbt is not perfect are you saying that :-
Maybe we should go back to the old system whereby if a practical test was not undertaken within a 2 year period ( i think) of getting a provisional licence the licence was suspended for 6 mths and one would have to reapply

[UK Bike Forum Member]

 

[UK Bike Forum Member]

i take it you have recently done a cbt and now think you have nothing to learn,

[UK Bike Forum Member]

No, you didn't understand what I said. You basically confirmed it with what you said initially.

I know that I have a lot to learn, and that I will forever be learning, it is impossible to know everything.

What I am saying is that all these tests are no good in my opinion. For example, I took my Motorcycle theory a few weeks ago. It cost me £30. I paid that money 8 years ago when I done my car licence. I didn't revise for the bike test, it was practically exactly the same as the car one I had already done. Passed. Why did I have to do it and pay for it AGAIN?   

As for the practical (mod 1 and 2) I think I covered most of it in the CBT, it seems to be the same training to me, I mean why do I have to ride through cones and go for an on road ride, AGAIN? I already paid for that and done it once before (CBT). The only thing that might be different now is that I am on a 500CC not a 125CC. It's stupid in my opinion. Please correct me if I am wrong, but the full license training doesn't appear to be much different.

I believe that they should include RELEVANT training such as riding on motorways and carrying pillions on top of the safety and general handling.

I mean once I have my full license, how will I be better off than I am now? Other than I will have had gained EXPERIENCE on a bigger CC bike? I won't be, because I don't know everything and never will, just like you and my instructors.

I just believe that motorway riding, and pillion carrying should be included in basic training and that's all we need for a full license, the rest comes with experience, additional training should be optional.

Also to ride anything larger than a 125 CC we should take another "CBT" for the larger CC to become familiar with it. Other than that the safety and manoeuvres are basically the same as when riding a 125CC.

What I was saying before is that we are all paying for something and getting very little in return.

I basically have a full license now, but with some privileges removed (the 4 points I stated prior). Since I don't get the training for those privileges then why not just give me a full license now? Do you see what I mean? I don't know if I am explaining what I mean well enough, and if not then I am sorry, doing the best I can   

[UK Bike Forum Member]

Some valid points Richard but there is a massive difference between the skill levels most people have when you've just passed a CBT and those you need to be classed as a rider, the only thing that can give you those skills is practice and someone to assess if you have those skills. 

I agree about the cost of the theory test and things need to be different for those that already drive a car and those that are new to the road but we have to have a skill level as a minimum and some way of knowing if that level has been met.

[UK Bike Forum Member]

I think that what you will find is that you didn't cover very much road work on CBT at all, 2hrs is nowhere near enough, yes as a car driver you will find that the  rules of the road  come easier ( but you would be surprised at how many experienced drivers struggle on putting the highway code into practise on the road test)
most motorcycle trainers worth calling that will take students on motorway standard dual carriageways to gain some experience before the test,  (lots of riders do not live within a reasonable distance of a motorway anyway)
OK you might be able to pass a test on motorcycle but who would asses that you could be given the opportunity to ride a killing machine ( oh i know an independent body and  maybe that should be a Government department)
would you pay for and take training for motorways and carrying a pillion, not many would.
again CBT is a basic level - on a DSA  test the skill level required is MUCH higher than CBT requires.
as for gaining experience, yes that does happen with the passage of time as long as you stay alive long enough after CBT, a good instructor can give you the tools to survive long enough to gain that experience , i passed my test in 1967 when one could jump on a 250cc with" L"plates without any training ,lots of riders were involved in horrific accidents or died as a result, which is why basic training was introduced

As far as extra CBT for a large bike, a good company will give e at least an hour free of charge to be able to handle a large bike before allowing a rider on the road

[UK Bike Forum Member]

I have seen literature which relates a lot of accidents to riders losing control on left hand bends. If that’s the case, include reasonable speed cornering techniques then. How many of us have shit ourselves and run wide when simply leaning the bike a bit more would have got us through the corner with ease. I’ve done it and just been lucky that nothing was coming the other way. It’s taken me years of practice to get reasonably good at this but I still mess up from time-to-time.

I firmly believe some kind of training in this skill would reduce accidents.

But what the f*ck do I know