Bike Safe one thing I disagreed with and have proved it since.

[UK Bike Forum Member]

When I did my bikesafe the reason they gave for not stopping between the first two cars (position 1) was you have to win the traffic light grand prix to be safe but if you stop in position two you are worse off in that you have to hope there's a gap made to slot into and as said you are surrounded by cars and don't have half as good a view of the lights and junction.

As for the legality of it there is nothing illegal about filtering between cars but if there is an accident then there is a bit of a grey area regarding insurance and it might end up as knock for knock even if some 2@ changes lanes without indicating or opens a door.

Gary as for using the right hand side of the road to have a look before an overtake, that was encouraged, they claim the idea position is to move as far into the right hand lane to get a good view past th vehicle or even just to get more vision around the bend, infact the ROSPA instructor spent a good amount of time doing this.

Steve, gutted you had to stick to the limts, it must depend on the instuctor you have, ours was happy to get to around 75 80 but all limts of 50 and below were stuck to. They may be a boring bunch but the can get those Beemers and Pans to hustle though!

[UK Bike Forum Member]

I think the only way to solve this with Bike Safe or any other advanced training is to get hard facts. If anybody had the time it would be interesting to do a survey asking drivers what they thought ideally it would be good to distinguish the bike riders to the non-bike riders. Maybe going to far but if we all posted a question on our facebook page (for all who got it) and see if we get a response.

"Whilst driving if you found yourself at the front of queue at a junction on a duel carriage way and a motorcyclist where to pull up at the front in between the two lanes would you feel that the biker was looking to race? Also are you a biker yourself? Please answer yes or no to the above questions."

 

[UK Bike Forum Member]

  perhaps the Police know where the safest place is because they have access to Statistics that we dont 

[UK Bike Forum Member]

Been through this before with StuartTwoWheelTraining. He says (as did the cops on my recent bikesafe) that just behind the first cars is safest.

Really can't see this myself because if you're at the front of the queue, you'll be clear of any traffic within seconds of the lights changing. Not saying Stu, or the boys in blue are wrong, but, I feel safer at the front where I can see the entire junction instead of being stuck behind the front car and worrying whether car No2 is gonna stick to the bumper of car No1 in the queue leaving me no space to get in.

If you travel through a series of traffic lights you're at the front at most red lights anyway, then the cars stop behind you. What do you do then??? You're at the front already which is apparently wrong 

Not knocking Stu or any other advanced trainers cos feck me do they know their stuff. But, I don't feel agressive adopting 'position 1' as they call it, I actully feel safer.

Just out of curiosity, how fast were you riding at in the Nationals? With my instructor it was 60mph. Legal obviously, but I could have fallen asleep after half an hour. I'm far more switched on riding at my own pace and concentrate on the safety aspect much more at higher speeds.

Not knocking bikesafe at all, cos I learned from it, Sarah learned a massive amount from it, and it was £20 very well spent. I'd do another for that price

National speed limits apart from overtaking

[UK Bike Forum Member]

To the best of my knowledge, it is illegal to filter to the front of the traffic.

The first vehicle usually pulls right up to the white line, therefore if you were to filter through and pull in front, you will need to cross the white line on a red light (illegal positioning).

If you were to filter through and stop in line with the two front vehicles, you are, in effect, making a third lane (illegal positioning).

One other point is that when the lights change from red to red/amber, the first thing on your mind is usually to pull away quickly to clear the two vehicles either side of you, not allowing for the idiot thats just run a late red light in the other direction.

I have my Bike Safe next weekend in Barry, I will try to get a clear definition of whats safe, and whats legal.

Not disputing that it is illegal just looking out for me

[Pope]

One other point is that when the lights change from red to red/amber, the first thing on your mind is usually to pull away quickly to clear the two vehicles either side of you, not allowing for the idiot thats just run a late red light in the other direction.

This is why I always give a quick glance in either direction as I pull off from the lights just to be sure 

(and when I pull off from the lights, I'm at the front if I can get there in time)

I can't believe bikesafe people say it's 'safe' to stick yourself in between other traffic like that.
This is the exact reason I have no interest in the bikesafe courses

[Pope]

and as for sticking to national speed limits on the bikesafe courses? 

THEY know we don't ride at the posted limits.
WE know we don't ride at the posted limits.

I thought bikesafe was about reducing casualties, so why not apply their training to the more realistic speeds that we ride at? (mostly)

I've got to ask myself when I spot the ROSPA bunch out and about on their hi-viz pans/bmw's what exactly are they doing on their bikes?

Obviously not enjoying themselves anyway 

[UK Bike Forum Member]

One other point is that when the lights change from red to red/amber, the first thing on your mind is usually to pull away quickly to clear the two vehicles either side of you, not allowing for the idiot thats just run a late red light in the other direction.

This is why I always give a quick glance in either direction as I pull off from the lights just to be sure 

(and when I pull off from the lights, I'm at the front if I can get there in time)

I can't believe bikesafe people say it's 'safe' to stick yourself in between other traffic like that.
This is the exact reason I have no interest in the bikesafe courses

sorry but a quick glance is not a safe thing to do it should be a proper look, its the quick glance that gets motorcyclists killed , how can we complain about car drivers not looking properly if we  do the same

[Pope]

sorry but a quick glance is not a safe thing to do it should be a proper look, its the quick glance that gets motorcyclists killed , how can we complain about car drivers not looking properly if we  do the same

 

I meant a quick glance when the lights turns green.  If there's something coming i WILL see them and they'll be running a red light.

7 years on the road now.  365 days a year.  about 20k a year.  not dead yet 

I must be doing something right? 

[UK Bike Forum Member]

i did my bike test last year and was told by the instructor that police like us to filter as we get out of the way
also as a car driver i would rather then come to the front and go as they out of the way and safe
im not saying this because of being a biker i have always had this opinion

lots of car drivers think we want to race but we just want to be out the way we dont want to race we know we can beat them and we dont need to prove it

there should be a car safe course too so they could learn about us and what to do at light as well or teach driving instructors
the UP FRONT RULE 

[UK Bike Forum Member]

I was told the same thing by the police when on bikesafe and did try it for about a day after! I didnt like being surrounded by 4 cars, there is rarely a space between the cars bumpers, so you tend to get squeezed and then you end up being stuck in the middle of 2 lanes of traffic with drivers who dont know you're there!! Straight to the front everytime for me! The drivers at the front may be a little cheesed off that you've queue jumped but you're gone and out of their hair in seconds! And any driver who thinks you've pulled to the front for a race and thinks they could keep up, well they're the ones that should need further education, a carsafe course like shazza said!    

[UK Bike Forum Member]

Gary as for using the right hand side of the road to have a look before an overtake, that was encouraged, they claim the idea position is to move as far into the right hand lane to get a good view past th vehicle or even just to get more vision around the bend, infact the ROSPA instructor spent a good amount of time doing this.

if the Rospa instructor was encouraging this on a bikesafe course he was blatantly breaking the rules and shouldnt be teaching bikesafe.

[UK Bike Forum Member]

ROSPA = safe and bored shitless and  not  " making progress "   dayglo and rospa gold = cheap insurance for a reason , the reason is slow and sure , no fun bored to tears or sleep

Minor traffic law infringement or a safe getaway = no choice everytime.

bit harsh the first bit , i think the Rospa isnt a bad idea for some as any training is generally good training. some chaps dont want to go quick but would blatantly benefit from learning a bit of correct road positioning and improving observation if only to stop the dull fuckers from getting in the way. the danger with rospa and i'm not mentioning any names is the course can turn some into self righteous pompous arrogant twats who think they can ride well but actually are only capable of pootling around whilst getting the optimum miles to the gallon.


and this statement i find interesting , well actually its a load of bollocks

" Minor traffic law infringement or a safe getaway = no choice everytime. "

using the safety excuse is rubbish if you are honest you are at the front because you want to go first, it takes seconds to make your way to the front of traffic while its moving so being at the front when the lights change makes very little difference on the journey. you can deny it all you want but thats the truth.

yes it is unlikely that a copper will book you for stopping on the red bit at the front but when i asked the copper on the bikesafe if he would nick me he said "I would have a word with you" i read this as a "no" so i do generally stick it on the red at the front but only because i want to go first and also because i can.




 

[UK Bike Forum Member]

 

i also do this because i can

[UK Bike Forum Member]

On the Bike Safe course they ask you what is the safest position to adopt when filtering on a dual carriageway and both lanes have stopped at traffic lights. We nearly all agreed that we would pull up to the white line between the front two cars.

We were told that was not the correct position as it could be assumed by the car drivers that you were being aggressive and wanted to "race" them from the lights.

this works only with the boy racer xxx