Bike Safe one thing I disagreed with and have proved it since.

[UK Bike Forum Member]

On the Bike Safe course they ask you what is the safest position to adopt when filtering on a dual carriageway and both lanes have stopped at traffic lights. We nearly all agreed that we would pull up to the white line between the front two cars.

We were told that was not the correct position as it could be assumed by the car drivers that you were being aggressive and wanted to "race" them from the lights. We were told the correct position was between and slightly in front the second two cars in the queue.

I have put this to the test several times on North Road in and out of Cardiff and I was almost the filling in the sandwich of the second two cars who assumed I was being aggressive and squeezed me. As I had the first two cars in front of me I had no where to go and on one occasion this stupid bitch to my right was trying to push me into the car on my left.

I firmly believe the safest position is either right at the front so if they want to race you you have speed and space on your side or just sit in the queue with everyone else(why not then just buy a car).

I think the point the police are missing is that no car driver is going to try to cut them up where ever they position their bike because the car driver will not enjoy going to court over the matter.

Me I just looking to live as long as possible.

If anyone is going on a Bike Safe course in the near future I would appreciate it if you could pass my comments to the policemen running the course.

[UK Bike Forum Member]

Surely if you go inbetween the front two cars they assume you are on a bike lol and that's what we do.....

[UK Bike Forum Member]

Surely if you go inbetween the front two cars they assume you are on a bike lol and that's what we do.....

[UK Bike Forum Member]

i got told the same by gwent old bill last month, so i played along for 2 days, and when a car saw me they saw a big shiny police bike right behind me so i was pretty safe 
as soon as i had finished i went straight back to the front of the queue, no car is ever gonna pull away quicker than us are they!! 

[UK Bike Forum Member]

Been through this before with StuartTwoWheelTraining. He says (as did the cops on my recent bikesafe) that just behind the first cars is safest.

Really can't see this myself because if you're at the front of the queue, you'll be clear of any traffic within seconds of the lights changing. Not saying Stu, or the boys in blue are wrong, but, I feel safer at the front where I can see the entire junction instead of being stuck behind the front car and worrying whether car No2 is gonna stick to the bumper of car No1 in the queue leaving me no space to get in.

If you travel through a series of traffic lights you're at the front at most red lights anyway, then the cars stop behind you. What do you do then??? You're at the front already which is apparently wrong 

Not knocking Stu or any other advanced trainers cos feck me do they know their stuff. But, I don't feel agressive adopting 'position 1' as they call it, I actully feel safer.

Just out of curiosity, how fast were you riding at in the Nationals? With my instructor it was 60mph. Legal obviously, but I could have fallen asleep after half an hour. I'm far more switched on riding at my own pace and concentrate on the safety aspect much more at higher speeds.

Not knocking bikesafe at all, cos I learned from it, Sarah learned a massive amount from it, and it was £20 very well spent. I'd do another for that price

[UK Bike Forum Member]

I've tried waiting behind the first car on a few occasions (after being told the same thing on my Bikesafe). It never seems very safe to me being surrounded by four cars as you pull away, you can never tell which is going to be quicker/slower off the mark and therefore which lane to favour. I'm happier being at the front, that way you have control of the situation and can pull away from them should you have to (unless you're stupid enough to try with a Lamborghini and Ferrari behind you).

Andy.

[UK Bike Forum Member]

We were told that was not the correct position as it could be assumed by the car drivers that you were being aggressive and wanted to "race" them from the lights.

I'd rather be 'assumed' aggressive and use my acceleration to get clear of the traffic and to safety when the lights turn to green than get sandwiched to be honest.  Never done a bike safe, been riding for 18 years and seem to be doing ok so far............

[UK Bike Forum Member]

To the best of my knowledge, it is illegal to filter to the front of the traffic.

The first vehicle usually pulls right up to the white line, therefore if you were to filter through and pull in front, you will need to cross the white line on a red light (illegal positioning).

If you were to filter through and stop in line with the two front vehicles, you are, in effect, making a third lane (illegal positioning).

One other point is that when the lights change from red to red/amber, the first thing on your mind is usually to pull away quickly to clear the two vehicles either side of you, not allowing for the idiot thats just run a late red light in the other direction.

I have my Bike Safe next weekend in Barry, I will try to get a clear definition of whats safe, and whats legal.

[UK Bike Forum Member]

To the best of my knowledge, it is illegal to filter to the front of the traffic.

The first vehicle usually pulls right up to the white line, therefore if you were to filter through and pull in front, you will need to cross the white line on a red light (illegal positioning).

If you were to filter through and stop in line with the two front vehicles, you are, in effect, making a third lane (illegal positioning).

One other point is that when the lights change from red to red/amber, the first thing on your mind is usually to pull away quickly to clear the two vehicles either side of you, not allowing for the idiot thats just run a late red light in the other direction.

I have my Bike Safe next weekend in Barry, I will try to get a clear definition of whats safe, and whats legal.

isit
Nice post this    What you have written is just as I have thought and been told by a few people.  This thread could soon end up as one of the best on the forum. Keep it up guys 

[UK Bike Forum Member]

Well technicaly red and amber both mean stop, but we all fook off before it hits green. And as for the red light jumper? Check for him. Easy innit.

[UK Bike Forum Member]

I know where I would prefer to wait...

[UK Bike Forum Member]

If you do your checks properly before entering the junction, you shouldn't need to check while you are in the junction.

I tend to check left and right as I see their lights going red/the traffic stopping, to make sure everyone is stopping as they should, then go as my lights are changing.  I'm not in the junction for long enough for something that I didn't see on my checks to be able to cause me harm.  S'what 'making progress' is all about - getting yourself out of danger asap

Similar to how they teach you to take roundabouts for your test.  When entering a roundabout, your last check should always be over your left shoulder, then proceed to enter the roundabout.  The check to the right into the roundabout before your lifesaver should be adequate (obviously pending traffic conditions).  Or so I was taught 

[UK Bike Forum Member]

Well technically green means "proceed with caution".

If you can leave a junction at a quick enough pace, while checking the vehicles on your left and right are not trying to out run you from the lights, and at the same time looking left and right at the as you pass through the junction checking for a red light jumper, emergency vehicle, or a stolen car being chased, then good luck to you...

I know where I would prefer to wait...

It's called multi-tasking.

[UK Bike Forum Member]

I don't do multitasking...

[UK Bike Forum Member]

I passed my bike test in 1988 and had been riding for 3 years before that all on road and a few years off road as a teenager on crossers.

I think Rospa is ok ,but condones a lot of stuff i have been taught by a  Police class 1 rider as Steve will probly agree using the right side of the road to gain vision and help negotiate bends while " Making progress" is frowned upon  but christ it works 

I feel  they just have health and safety at there forefront just a little too much.
Havent met a ROSPA gold or old rider than can hold a candle to some of my long term biker buddies who are Police trained or have had the Police class A instruction.

As a young student years back i was also a dispatch rider around the West Midlands , at least 2 full days and before shifts at the hospital i worked and not once in all that time did i position myself as the New recommendations would like as im sure i would have been wiped out a long time ago.

I have ridden for over 24 years and although it is breaking a minor traffic law by taking the right of way that belongs to the front vehicle at lights and junctions etc..... it is by far the safest thing to do in my mind.

I dont see many bike cops adopting this idea either they ride to the front too ( the ones i have seen ).

ROSPA = safe and bored shitless and  not  " making progress "   dayglo and rospa gold = cheap insurance for a reason , the reason is slow and sure , no fun bored to tears or sleep

Minor traffic law infringement or a safe getaway = no choice everytime.