Opinion of an ex police motorcycle instructor on speed

[thundercatsho]

Found this on the net today.

"For the last few years many local authorities have been going over board with the question of speed. Many decisions have been taken which in my opinion are being called politically correct, and nothing to do with road safety.

The driving public, the silent majority, were first bemused I would suspect regarding many changing speed limits and later despairing at many of the limits imposed, that local drivers could only describe as policies gone mad.

Take a case in my local area the A357, a small stretch of road, which runs from Wincanton down to the A30 at Henstridge a distance I would say is approximately 4 to 5 miles in length. The road is a typical country road with a sparse selection of houses. It is of a good surface a good line of sight and is as one would expect in this location a bendy road. There are a few junctions leading from minor roads. Before the local politicians got their hands on it, it had a national speed limit of 60mph. The exception was through built up areas, the villages, which have a 30 mph limit imposed.

To many drivers who enjoy driving it would be classified as a delight to drive with good line of sight to all junctions, except two, for traffic from the Wincanton towards Henstridge direction. There are signs, which indicated the junctions. The local authority in there political correct thoughts decided that this road had become so dangerous that a speed restriction was urgently required. The result is that the road is now almost in its entire length a 30 to 40 mph system.

The driving public soon realised that the speeds that has been put in place were so stupid as to be dangerous. The reason I say this is as follows. On seeing any speed restriction driver gets a birds eye view of what the problems or situations are. With good lines of sight, what on earth does a 30 mph speed limit have to do with safety? It instantly brings the speed limit into disrepute. What it is telling us that the vast majority of the public are so stupid that if we do not adhere to this limit they are in mortal danger. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence can see that the road is perfectly safe as no danger can possibly happen at reasonable higher speeds. The result is that many drivers will not conform and consistently break the new limit. This degenerates into the frustrated drivers attempting to overtake slower drivers who adhere to the speed limit, which in it self creates more danger than there ever was or perceived to be. It also has the affect of bunching vehicles closer together where before there was never a problem. This has a knock on effect.

There are so many examples of stupid speed limits being put into place all over the country including the inappropriate placing of speed cameras, joined up now with civilian teams to catch motorists, that real speed limits which are required, are being brought into disrespect and or ignored. I would like to see the professional drivers from the police traffic departments take a much more direct action. They should be able to recommend a speed limit that they think appropriate for all stretches of roads. I believe that the people who are making decisions regarding speed are not trained or have a professional background to do an honest assessment. All you have is a few non drivers or haters of cars who make unfounded complaints that get action to the detriment of us all.

I do not think there are many drivers who would not accept that speed limits are required at some locations. Cameras should be placed at black spots. Cameras for drivers jumping red lights. Speed limits imposed near schools (During school opening times) Dangerous junctions with the appropriate signs displayed. Has it occurred to local authorities that unsighted junctions, with a small amount of intelligence would be better served by good engineering? Look at the vast majority of unsighted junctions which could be developed to much better lines of sight by just cutting back an overgrown hedge, or redesigning the junction so as to give motorists a good view from both directions. In some cases the reconstruction of an exit to a more suitable location. Widening of some roads would eliminate lots of problems. I have no problem with speed limits if they are sensible and fair not just for the driver but pedestrians and I suggest most drivers feel the same. There will always be that small element of dangerous drivers who will flout the law even when it is justified who will not comply with any restriction.

To classify us all as mad and bad or as now preserved a moneymaking business is a dangerous route to take and turns the general driving public into an angered and disillusioned majority. One observation I would like to point out is as follows. Speed cameras and enforcement has now become a business. To survive, a business must generate profits just like any other business. It would there for be logical that to take the business forward it must have plans to keep profits up and expanding. How does one achieve this? The obvious answer is to give the purchaser (the driver) the opportunity to spend more of his hard earned money by encouraging him to exceed the speed limit. With stupid speed restrictions and unrestricted sighting of cameras at inappropriate locations it will keep the business flourishing and growing. It has already been forecast that the speed restrictions imposed will generate millions of pounds more in the coming years. I have no confidence with any politician who states that the placing of cameras are justified, because like politicians worldwide they can always say that their policy is working when the vast majority of the public can see through their deceit.

To conclude, the use of ridiculous speed restrictions are so far advanced as to make a mockery of proper and required speed limits and so bring speed limits into disrepute. The decisions of those in charge are making the public so apathetic that no one believes what they say and brings the law into disrepute.

Finally the police. The Chief officers in charge direct their officers or should direct them to priorities. By allowing speed to become political they become alienated from the publics' good will. As a nation we were always seen as a tolerant society with a high sense of fair play. It is the British tradition to laugh at ourselves. We are no longer laughing at this creeping correctness. This is rapidly disappearing into a Britain I no longer like the look of".

Mike Waite ex-police motorcycle instructor.

 

[CeltRider]

Very well put - the people in a position of authority (concerned with roads) should read that..........

Trouble is, most still would not be able to acknowledge it, as they are so caught up in their own magnificence!


Nice find.

[snoopy]

Very well put - the people in a position of authority (concerned with roads) should read that..........

Trouble is, most still would not be able to acknowledge it, as they are so caught up in their own magnificence!


Nice find.

  So true ... 

[stuey]

.... Speed cameras and enforcement has now become a business. To survive, a business must generate profits just like any other business.

totally agree with this; in addition it would be interesting to know if the opinions above reflect that of the majority of Police Drivers/Instructors?

[blueracer]

Could we get somebody from the police force to acknowledge this    probably not

[snoopy]

Could we get somebody from the police force to acknowledge this    probably not

     uummm nooo ... you been smoking the funny stuff        ???    sorry 

[thundercatsho]

He seems pretty much on side with the majority of us members of public  .

There is another rant about speed cameras on his site I will try and find it.

[thundercatsho]

Speed Cameras, The Case Against
This excellent paper by Paul Smith is essential reading for those interested in the arguments surrounding speed and cameras on UK roads.

Introduction

The way that speed cameras have been introduced to British roads has been shoddy in the extreme. There have been no proper trials of their effectiveness as a blackspot treatment, no investigation of their possible side effects and precious little thought about their overall effects on our worthy but fragile road safety systems.

Yet politicians, campaigners, so-called scientists and others have been keen to jump on the speed camera bandwagon and tell us that it is all for our own good – based on little more than blind faith and an oversimplified assessment of reality.

And now the country is infested with cameras. The number of speed camera fines is doubling every 3 years, yet roads fatalities are not falling at all. We have every right to expect roads fatalities to fall without assistance from government policy because both vehicle engineering and medical care are improving at a considerable pace and making similar crashes more survivable every year. These improvements in medical care and vehicle engineering are much larger than the growth in traffic.

In this document we will show how and why we believe that bad road safety policy, based on speed cameras, is actually making drivers less effective at avoiding accidents  to the dangerous extent of entirely negating the engineering and medical care improvements that we are receiving.

[thundercatsho]

Question of Speed (part 1)
The question of speed has been around for a long time not only in politics and the enforcement authorities but the general public at large.

The answer is varied and sometimes complicated to say the least.

The biggest impact in speed enforcement in the last few years has come by way of the speed camera. When this was first introduced it was agreed by most of the population that it did reduce speed and accident at blackspots by a substantial margin. The general public at large supported them.

I don’t think anyone would disagree that the placement of these machines in the correct places is helpful and even desirable to cut down serious accidents.

We have moved on a bit since those days, I would say in the wrong direction.

First the cut-back of the police traffic divisions whose presence on the road is a deterrent in itself. My own regional police driving school which trained officers to a very high level has been closed, all because of monetary constraints, that being Number 6 regional driving school at Devizes, Wiltshire. The loss will be felt in years to come.

The sprouting of cameras in the most inappropriate areas is in my opinion illogical; even the greatest of defenders of speed cameras would blush at some of the sites they occupy. We have all seen the hiding of these cameras even in an area, which may call for their placement, placed behind signs and out of view to the motorist. At the very least this is misjudged and at the worst highly dangerous.

Take a camera placed not too far from where I live. The road is the A303. At this location, we have a 50mph speed limit in force. There is a brow, which leads to a crossroads, which has seen its fair share of accidents as it has a restricted view. Now to place a camera in this location would in my opinion be sensible, so as to reduce vehicles’ speed to enable vehicles to exit safely out of the junction. What makes my blood boil is that they have deliberately hidden the camera behind a sign, out of sight of motorists. This is blatant positioning to catch and fine the motorist. What about the drivers emerging out of the junction? This I suggest brings the law into disrepute. It is just one example of a stupid location. I am sure we can all point out similar ones. Why, for example, is a camera situated on a long straight on a wide road with little or no accident black spot? No wonder the driving public despair—it brings the cameras and law into disrepute.

Ever heard the phrase Education, Education, Education? I bet it sounds familiar!

 

I was a serving traffic officer in the Dorset police and during my time on the traffic division it was, and I suggest very rare, to attribute accidents to speed. The major cause of accidents was down to drivers not concentrating and or being distracted by something not associated with their driving. The usual charge was driving without due care and attention or reasonable consideration to other road users. We do not have a law which says driving without concentration or reasonable observation, even though the vast majority of accidents are due to this action.

I have recently seen an advert on my local TV, which shows a car travelling at 40mph and then places a child in the middle of the road. The car hits the child. The message is “Cut your speed”. For goodness sake, if a driver is driving along and cares to look ahead he will have plenty of time to reduce speed. The TV item is not reality, it is bogus and very misleading to say the least. I could tell you about hundreds of accidents I have dealt with where the majority were down to the driver not paying attention or lack of concentration. These accidents would and do occur at below the speed limit. Just look at our overcrowded road systems, most of which are jammed with traffic just crawling along. What do the authorities do about it? They go to a stretch of road where there are no pedestrians and stick up a speed camera. Why? What is the point except to produce income? This in the end will result in a large backlash. If the Government want to raise taxes from motorists they should come out and say so and not hide behind hate-cars campaigners. This politically-correct nonsense will do little to educate the motorist—only alienate the majority of law-abiding drivers.

My answer to this is: If the local authorities require revenue they should not endorse the licence out of built-up areas; if any motorist is caught speeding with a camera or by the police in a built-up area he should pay a fine and have his licence endorsed; out of built-up areas, only a fine or an endorsement if stopped by traffic police. At least this way we know if we are exceeding a sensible speed limit we deserve all we get. This would take a lot of criticism away from traffic police who do a difficult and sometimes dangerous job and get the blame for raising revenue for their chief constable. They can then concentrate on the real dangerous drivers who are reckless and irresponsible and appear to be getting away with it. I blame chief officers of police, as it is the chiefs who can and do direct their officers to concentrate on certain issues. Take stolen vehicles, or driving while disqualified, and no-insurance drink- driving, which are endemic in this country. Police spend less time and resources on these serious offences than they do in concentrating on speeders.

How many forces have stolen vehicle squads? Take drugs—police are overwhelmed with offences, so what do the politicians do, they decriminalise cannabis. Not long ago a police officer who was riding his own motorbike in his own time was caught speeding at 125mph. He was heavily fined and—wait for it—he was also sent to prison! How can the authorities justify this, when they allow serial burglars and drug addicts to go free?

 

Don’t get me wrong. I know we have to have laws to stop the really dangerous drivers, and I have ‘done’ hundreds who deserved to be ‘done’. I have also let numerous people off after giving them advice. To tar everyone with the same brush is outrageous and that is exactly what cameras do. At least a police officer has discretion when dealing with some of these items—a camera does not. Why are these cameras not fitted with devices that detect stolen vehicles? This technology has been available for years. What is it the authorities prioritise? There is a place for cameras and that’s at specific locations, which should be selected by the experts—that being traffic police officers only, and not by anyone else. Not even chief officers, as they are not front line officers.

I was saying to a friend of mine a couple of years ago: “If ever the local authorities are allowed to take over enforcement on our roads, we shall as a nation suffer the consequences as being a soft touch for a stealth tax and ridiculous siting of cameras.” With reflection, how true this statement was and is ever-emerging. It will not stop there either.

I am ashamed of the politicians who are supposed to represent yours and my welfare; they appear to be stuck in a politically-correct strait-jacket because a few people with very loud mouths seem to have their attention all the time. Wake up, politicians, before it is too late!

 

(Revised February 17th 2003)

 

Mike Waite, ex-Police instructor.

 

[thundercatsho]

Save me the effort (feeling lazy Ive been on nights again)
Here is a link to Mikes site there is some usful info as well as rants about speed camera's.

He now runs a training school for bikers and comes accross as a decent enough bloke.

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[lewy]

.... Speed cameras and enforcement has now become a business. To survive, a business must generate profits just like any other business.

totally agree with this; in addition it would be interesting to know if the opinions above reflect that of the majority of Police Drivers/Instructors?

The Traffic officers  that i know have that opinion,

[lewy]

even government reports show that speed is a factor in only a minority of accidents
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Failed to look properly was the most frequently reported contributory factor (37%)
For every vehicle type except motorbikes. This factor was analysed in some detail in the 2006 publication.
• Failed to judge other person’s path or speed was the second most frequently reported factor for cars and goods vehicles and was reported for 11 per cent of vehicles overall.
 • Motorcycles had a notably higher percentage of the contributory factors loss of control (15 per cent) and learner/inexperienced driver (9 per cent) when compared to other vehicle types.
• Sudden braking was the second most frequently reported contributory factor for buses or coaches (13 per cent).
 • Cyclist entering road from pavement was attributed to 9 per cent of pedal cycles in accidents and cyclist wearing dark clothes at night was attributed to 4 per cent.
• Seven per cent of heavy goods vehicles (HGVs) involved in accidents had vehicle blind spot as a contributory factor.
• Exceeding speed limit was attributed to 3 per cent of cars involved in accidents, while travelling too fast for conditions was attributed to 5 per cent. For fatal accidents these figures are both 8 per cent

[XB9S]

Finally the police. The Chief officers in charge direct their officers or should direct them to priorities. By allowing speed to become political they become alienated from the public' good will. As a nation we were always seen as a tolerant society with a high sense of fair play. It is the British tradition to laugh at ourselves. We are no longer laughing at this creeping correctness. This is rapidly disappearing into a Britain I no longer like the look of".

I've lost all respect for the the traffic cop many moons ago,just a few weeks back i was driving along on the A470 twds Dolgellau,i had my 2 year old in the back sleeping,i pulled over for a second in a lay by to check something rejoined the road and went on my way no other car in sight.
Quickly a copper came up behind me out of nowhere,i said to myself what does this plonker want now.
Anyway i carry on sticking to speed limits and hes up my ass all the time,eventually after 6 miles he flashes his lights,so i pull over and he jumps out of his car,comes to the window and says you're being stopped because you committed an offence,i said what and what offence was that then,you crossed the white line he said,what white line i said,he explained to me that when i pulled out of the lay by 6 miles back i crossed the white line when joining the road,i honestly thought it was a joke,and then he kept on saying that he has the right to stop me for committing that offence,the twat followed me for 6 miles before pulling me over,during that time we passed 6 or 7 laybays and he didn't me flash once,tried to get me to break the limit by being behind all this time,if my son wasn't with me i would have slammed the anchors on.
Anyway he carries on with his silly offence thing and start checking the car and he says have you been drinking,at this time i was at boiling point and if i was out of the car i would have been in trouble,i wanted to punch him, what a twat,i know he was trying to get a reaction but thought this twat is not worth it.
Anyway after a few more mins of this idiot he says everything is ok and i can go .
I'm just disappointed that i didn't record the whole event coz i was really angry and wanted to take it further.
Apologise for the rant but just to show an example of how they have alienated me from any good will towards them. the lot of them.

[redbullaholic]

Great thread.... But needs some

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[Bombdoctor]

Got to say...he's making a lot of sense there....